Buzz kill or not buzz kill

Harald February 10, 2012 at 10:51pm

This was an interesting discussion that you started Ayis. There is so much we can learn from other peoples experience and knowledge and so knowing if your item is good or fake or made up from the wrong components is important. But one has to treat very careful with this as is seen in the other comments to your discussion. We do not want to disappoint people as long as they hold on to items that are not what they believe they are. But as soon as those items that are fake or not as described are being sold I think one should be able to be honest about them and say they are not what they should be.

There is also criticism that is harmless and what most people will like to know. I mean when an item is described as say African and you are sure it is from Indonesia you can say so.

It is for many persons that do collect very important to have the knowledge to recognize fakes and items made up by components that do not belong together. A lot of dealers do not have any scruple selling those. So we have to be prepared with knowledge.

I think Sarah is right in suggesting to be respectful and send a private message first.

Giovanna Castelli August 8, 2011 at 1:01pm

I think you should say what you think in order to avoid future errors !

Stefany Tomalin July 14, 2011 at 2:36pm

thank you patricia-

Patricia Deany July 14, 2011 at 1:53pm

This is a wonderful reply, it respects the vunerability of the collector. What collectors buy should give them joy and knowledge whether it is a thousand years old or made yesterday. I can see correcting the impressions of a dealer, because they are profiting from their purchases, but to gratuitously introduce yourself into the dream world of a collector seems a bit cruel to me. I am, of course, rather thin skinned and it may be my personality rather than a hard and fast dictate, I think most collectors learn through experience what is deceptive and what is true about their purchases and unless directly asked this learning process should be allowed to continue unhindered. I am sure many openly embrace the reality of some of their buys, but others may be crushed and feel like a fool, so it is best to scope out to whom you offer your information.

Stefany Tomalin said:

I have been collecting researching dealing and teaching all aspects of the world of beads since the mid '70s and have written 3 books on the subject in the '80s and '90s (currently out of print but may be found secondhand) as well as lots of lectures, reviews, articles, etc.

This question interests me because it often cropped up in my former shop long before the days of the internet, -people would bring new treasures found on their travels, or in the antique market etc. to show, (or even to sell) me.

The first consideration is what it means to them.

If its something they love and want to wear this helps me to know how to relate to their question.

It shouldnt matter how old it is if its within a tradition.

Many ethnic things are copied "in the style of" but are not intended by their makers to deceive.

I first try to notice the factors that make something attractive before beginning to criticise.

Some people start collecting before they have begun the research, so its a learning curve, and so long as they havent spent a fortune its part of their accumulating experience.

The next step is to look at the evidence and share it with the owner- such as if the item is stitched with nylon fishing line, or there are plastic buttons, or other components which would not be used on a real old piece.

When a component seems to be out of context you need to be able to cite where you feel it came from or mention a source of reliable information., otherwise its only your opinion.

People can usually be shown the evidence without making them feel stupid.

if someone asks they are already acknowledging that they are prepared to take a risk and might be disappointed.

Within this specialist website my understanding is that anyone posting an image of one of their treasures agrees that they are prepared to hear both positive and negative comments, and all are helpful.

However I have seen quite a few images here which seem to me not necessarily what they are labelled but i hold back from commenting unless i feel it is genuinely wanted and wont be resented.

And my experience is mainly with beads etc. from the last few hundred years, not so much the really ancient, but that era is well-covered by James Lankton's meticulously-researched Timeline book.

(I'll give a link in my next post here.)

Also of course I'm looking after the needs of my 98-yr-old mum these days so have very little spare time for writing comments at the moment.

The most-often-asked-about beads in UK in my experience have always been "Granny's long string of faceted red amber" in which case very often its prudent to say -they are beautifully matched and graded, antique, and probably made from wonderful historic umbrella-handle plastic!

There is no shame in copying something you admire, only in pretending or perhaps hoping its more original than it is and passing it off as fine and rare. Anything is worth what people are prepared to pay for it, -dont be fooled by any stated value -and so its important to be confident and educate yourself about your chosen speciality.

Stefany

Eva Baby July 14, 2011 at 1:39pm

This is an interesting discussion. It might be disappointing or even painful to learn that a piece one values higly or even loves (sometimes one goes crazy over a piece and really loves it), is a fake. It might be terribly painful. However, I would prefer to know the truth, (if possible told in a kind way), than go on believing something that is not true. This is my personal view. It is a most interesting and thoughtful subject. I have read only two comments so far, but will read the rest now. But truth is better, no matter how disappointing. Kind regards, Eva

Annie Boehm July 12, 2011 at 5:42am

Thanks Sarah,

The three generations working together is very cool, and not just in theory! We are having a blast!

Annie

SARAH CORBETT said:

Hi Annie,

You are very welcome to post images here for feedback at any time.

I love the concept of your family working together in this way.

I shall take a peek in your e bay store. You may wish to add a link to it in the Marketplace area of the site.

Warm wishes

Sarah

Annie Boehm July 11, 2011 at 12:25am

That's a very sweet thing to say, Thanks from all of us!

Annie

Hi Annie,

I now understand why I keep going back to your ebay site. I really enjoy seeing what you have and hope to be able to pick something up one of these days.

Becky

Annie Boehm said:

I think I may the newest member here, but I was a lurker for quite a while before I joined. The reason I did join was to learn even more!

Some of you may know my mom Jackie Little. She was very active in multiple bead societies for many years, traveled widely, and had a thriving ethnic jewelry business. She, my daughter Ellie, and I have joined forces to continue her business online. We have a lot of unsold inventory from her many years in business, and are in the process of listing those items in our eBay store, Girl Adorned. At some point, there will be items from her personal collection as well.
While my Mom's memory never ceases to amaze me, her vision is now very, very poor due to macular degeneration. This makes proper identification of items a big challenge at times, so I am taking a crash course on all things adornment. My greatest fear is that we will misrepresent something and then be seen as dishonest. If I had to choose, I'd so much rather be seen as ignorant!

At any rate, I've learned a lot already, but know I have a lot more to learn, and I also see that experts can disagree; things are not always black and white. I would hope that if any one of you were to see something on our site that was misidentified, you would offer additional information....kindly and privately would be best though ;)

Thanks to all who have knowingly or unknowingly helped already!

Annie

Becky Rogers July 10, 2011 at 11:32pm

Hi Annie,

I now understand why I keep going back to your ebay site. I really enjoy seeing what you have and hope to be able to pick something up one of these days.

Becky

Annie Boehm said:

I think I may the newest member here, but I was a lurker for quite a while before I joined. The reason I did join was to learn even more!

Some of you may know my mom Jackie Little. She was very active in multiple bead societies for many years, traveled widely, and had a thriving ethnic jewelry business. She, my daughter Ellie, and I have joined forces to continue her business online. We have a lot of unsold inventory from her many years in business, and are in the process of listing those items in our eBay store, Girl Adorned. At some point, there will be items from her personal collection as well.
While my Mom's memory never ceases to amaze me, her vision is now very, very poor due to macular degeneration. This makes proper identification of items a big challenge at times, so I am taking a crash course on all things adornment. My greatest fear is that we will misrepresent something and then be seen as dishonest. If I had to choose, I'd so much rather be seen as ignorant!

At any rate, I've learned a lot already, but know I have a lot more to learn, and I also see that experts can disagree; things are not always black and white. I would hope that if any one of you were to see something on our site that was misidentified, you would offer additional information....kindly and privately would be best though ;)

Thanks to all who have knowingly or unknowingly helped already!

Annie

Joost Daalder July 9, 2011 at 10:33am

Hi Sahra, - I agreed with what you say, and posted that statement a minute or so ago. Yet it has disappeared from this spot!

Joost Daalder July 9, 2011 at 10:31am

Hi Sarah, - I agree entirely. Collections - particularly public/published collections - should be described as accurately as can be.

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Buzz kill or not buzz kill

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